Qwersion fer Mac
Qwersion fer Mac
I was curious, I have been demoing BiaB and Jammer 6 Pro for about two weeks, and I get confused as to which is the better app. I am leaning towards BiaB due to VSTi and DXi support, and far more options for styles, but I can see some features of jammer that are pretty interesting as well it seems both more flexable and more complicated at the same time. Have you ever messed with Jammer and what makes you perfer BiaB?
I've been a BIAB user since way back around '93, although didn't really start using it for completed works or sketching out works for sale until around '98 when it started to grow into something with a lot of styles and features.
Around late '98 I also bought the full Jammer, 2 I think it was at the time.
Problem I found with Jammer was that everything I did in a particular style sounded like the same damn song.
Second problem was Jammer's style editing, trying to change a style was ridiculously difficult and I never got anything usable for me, gave up in frustration on that front.
Jammer didn't have a help forum at all and attempts to communicate and ask questions via email were sporadic at best and useless in answers -- at that time, they may have improved on that front, dunno, haven't looked back. Wasted money AFAIC.
Those hippie musician icons got tired real fast (grin).
Stopped installing and trying to use Jammer altogether around 2000 and stick with BIAB for practicing, sketching things out, sometimes building midi tracks for completed works for sale in my jingle business and also as my "virtual trio" on the laptop for certain jazz gigs where I play predominantly jazz piano while BIAB provides bass, drums and sometimes jazz rhythm guitar parts.
Obviously I'd tell you to go with BIAB.
--Mac
Around late '98 I also bought the full Jammer, 2 I think it was at the time.
Problem I found with Jammer was that everything I did in a particular style sounded like the same damn song.
Second problem was Jammer's style editing, trying to change a style was ridiculously difficult and I never got anything usable for me, gave up in frustration on that front.
Jammer didn't have a help forum at all and attempts to communicate and ask questions via email were sporadic at best and useless in answers -- at that time, they may have improved on that front, dunno, haven't looked back. Wasted money AFAIC.
Those hippie musician icons got tired real fast (grin).
Stopped installing and trying to use Jammer altogether around 2000 and stick with BIAB for practicing, sketching things out, sometimes building midi tracks for completed works for sale in my jingle business and also as my "virtual trio" on the laptop for certain jazz gigs where I play predominantly jazz piano while BIAB provides bass, drums and sometimes jazz rhythm guitar parts.
Obviously I'd tell you to go with BIAB.
--Mac
That is what I thought, I just wanted another view away from the forum. The jammer setup seems to be far more confusing, and I can't make heads or tail out of some of it. BiaB I was able to use almost immediately, partly due to the great videos. I also like the fact that BiaB allows use of internal synths so previewing music is not with MSSGS.
My only worry was that BiaB seems so heavily leaned towards Jazz that many of the styles even the rock and pop styles seem to sound like jazz to me. For the Jazz guy great. but then I found the Norman styles and there seem to be tons of less "jazzy" ones to pick from, and the fake books look real nice for doing covers.
Lastly it does not seem to take a very powerful system to run this thing, one could have some older laptop attached to a decent sound module and it would suffice.
Even though I knew you are a BiaB guy, I knew you would give the straight skinny. Thank again, as always your advice is appreciated, Rob
My only worry was that BiaB seems so heavily leaned towards Jazz that many of the styles even the rock and pop styles seem to sound like jazz to me. For the Jazz guy great. but then I found the Norman styles and there seem to be tons of less "jazzy" ones to pick from, and the fake books look real nice for doing covers.
Lastly it does not seem to take a very powerful system to run this thing, one could have some older laptop attached to a decent sound module and it would suffice.
Even though I knew you are a BiaB guy, I knew you would give the straight skinny. Thank again, as always your advice is appreciated, Rob
Bob "Notes" Norton's BIAB styles certainly add to what you can do with BIAB.
Until you are a really seasoned user it is not recommended that you try "rolling your own" styles from scratch, that can be a chore and a half that doesn't pan out until you are well versed in the care and feeding of BIAB itself.
BIAB did add the "Hybrid Style Wizard" -- which is way cool, allowing a user to easily take the drum part and bass part, say, from one style and combine that with the guitar and piano or strings, horns, from another. This is powerful once you get to know your styles and what can maybe mate with what.
Also, BIAB has created many new styles the past couple of years in response to user demand that are not jazz oriented. This is why I recommend heartily that the new user spring for at least the Mega Pak if not the new Super Pak which includes all the RealDrums files, too. The more styles you have at your disposal the better. Matter of fact, I have noticed over the years that the complaints about BIAB being all jazz oriented or not very versatile come mostly from those who bought the lower level paks that don't have enough styles included with them.
--And if you price the initial "savings" that purchasing the lower paks seem to offer against the price of buying the styles separately, those two paks, the Mega or the Super, represent the best way to go and the best savings overall.
Finally, BIAB (as with all pgmusic products) comes with a 30-day no questions asked guarantee. You can return it within the 30 days for a full refund. That's like getting a full featured demo that even will save files for a month. There is no risk to you, but they offer that guarantee simply because if you really do start using the program for those first thirty days, you are more than likely to keep it and use it.
One last thing -- those interested in using BIAB for rock work will have the problem that ALL midi yields: E guitars, especially distorted and amp'd E guitars, just flat don't sound right in the Midi domain regardless of how much money you spend on a midi synth of any kind. I find that when I'm working up a rock, pop or r&b number using BIAB that I end up exporting the work as a Midi file, separate tracks, to my sequencer, usually MTS these days, and I strip out the BIAB created midi guitars and play in my own tracks. Sometimes emulating what BIAB played, sometimes I think I can improve on it with my feeble playing. Thus I end up with BIAB playing the drums, bass, maybe a clean strat rhythm part, maybe not, strings and piano or organ backing up REAL E guitar tracks. This has fooled many people with rather large ears. "Who is the drummer?" Especially since the addition of the RealDrums feature.
Lastly, BIAB is an awesome LEARNING TOOL.
One has to work with it awhile to realize that.
Many otherwise competent musicians in many genres have remarked about how much better their counting and timing became after working out with BIAB as a practice routine. (Many have ended up quitting bands or firing members over that, too!)
And that is but one aspect of BIAB's teaching and learning features.
The Ear Trainer alone is worth the entry price to any serious musician.
It takes awhile to be able to create a BIAB tune that does not "sound like a BIAB tune" -- but I've worked with the program long enough that I can do that with it on a routine basis now.
I've also composed stuff using BIAB and quickly burned same to disk for handing out to real musicians so they can get a sketchout of the thing before we go out on a date or into the studio to record. Did an entire CD that way. No meeting to rehearse for weeks, everybody learned from playing along with the disk and the included chart printed out in BIAB, we got together one time for one Saturday and ran through them, cleaned up a few things and the next week we recorded the entire thing back to back. When I think about it, that alone paid for the Megapak price and the upgrades.
BIAB is just like any other musical instrument.
You have to learn it, practice with it, figure it out, suddenly you are PLAYING it.
Effort well spent IMO.
--Mac
Until you are a really seasoned user it is not recommended that you try "rolling your own" styles from scratch, that can be a chore and a half that doesn't pan out until you are well versed in the care and feeding of BIAB itself.
BIAB did add the "Hybrid Style Wizard" -- which is way cool, allowing a user to easily take the drum part and bass part, say, from one style and combine that with the guitar and piano or strings, horns, from another. This is powerful once you get to know your styles and what can maybe mate with what.
Also, BIAB has created many new styles the past couple of years in response to user demand that are not jazz oriented. This is why I recommend heartily that the new user spring for at least the Mega Pak if not the new Super Pak which includes all the RealDrums files, too. The more styles you have at your disposal the better. Matter of fact, I have noticed over the years that the complaints about BIAB being all jazz oriented or not very versatile come mostly from those who bought the lower level paks that don't have enough styles included with them.
--And if you price the initial "savings" that purchasing the lower paks seem to offer against the price of buying the styles separately, those two paks, the Mega or the Super, represent the best way to go and the best savings overall.
Finally, BIAB (as with all pgmusic products) comes with a 30-day no questions asked guarantee. You can return it within the 30 days for a full refund. That's like getting a full featured demo that even will save files for a month. There is no risk to you, but they offer that guarantee simply because if you really do start using the program for those first thirty days, you are more than likely to keep it and use it.
One last thing -- those interested in using BIAB for rock work will have the problem that ALL midi yields: E guitars, especially distorted and amp'd E guitars, just flat don't sound right in the Midi domain regardless of how much money you spend on a midi synth of any kind. I find that when I'm working up a rock, pop or r&b number using BIAB that I end up exporting the work as a Midi file, separate tracks, to my sequencer, usually MTS these days, and I strip out the BIAB created midi guitars and play in my own tracks. Sometimes emulating what BIAB played, sometimes I think I can improve on it with my feeble playing. Thus I end up with BIAB playing the drums, bass, maybe a clean strat rhythm part, maybe not, strings and piano or organ backing up REAL E guitar tracks. This has fooled many people with rather large ears. "Who is the drummer?" Especially since the addition of the RealDrums feature.
Lastly, BIAB is an awesome LEARNING TOOL.
One has to work with it awhile to realize that.
Many otherwise competent musicians in many genres have remarked about how much better their counting and timing became after working out with BIAB as a practice routine. (Many have ended up quitting bands or firing members over that, too!)
And that is but one aspect of BIAB's teaching and learning features.
The Ear Trainer alone is worth the entry price to any serious musician.
It takes awhile to be able to create a BIAB tune that does not "sound like a BIAB tune" -- but I've worked with the program long enough that I can do that with it on a routine basis now.
I've also composed stuff using BIAB and quickly burned same to disk for handing out to real musicians so they can get a sketchout of the thing before we go out on a date or into the studio to record. Did an entire CD that way. No meeting to rehearse for weeks, everybody learned from playing along with the disk and the included chart printed out in BIAB, we got together one time for one Saturday and ran through them, cleaned up a few things and the next week we recorded the entire thing back to back. When I think about it, that alone paid for the Megapak price and the upgrades.
BIAB is just like any other musical instrument.
You have to learn it, practice with it, figure it out, suddenly you are PLAYING it.
Effort well spent IMO.
--Mac