Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

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Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Lytz1 »

Howdy.

Demoing MTS right now. Couple of questions have popped up already
that I need to know before considering going for the pro version.

1 .Swing Grid/Groove Quantize (Talking Midi here)
The first thing that I can't figure out is how to shuffle/swing midi notes.
I just can quantize them to the grid, which obviously sounds robotic as hell.
Am I missing something or do I have to edit every single note in the song by hand/ear to get the groove I want?
(SOLVED: Found it. That was the most important one....)

2. Multiple Midi Streams (bad timing)
When using multiple Midi Streams for a multitimbral drum instrument I get horrible timing artifacts.
It sounds like the notes were playing back an unquantized bad recording (but I programmed the drums via pen on the drumgrid.)
Any idea why that is?
(This seems to be a specific case because all notes are playing C3 but on different channels. I tested this
with another drum plugin which uses different notes instead of different channels and here the timing is solid.)

SOLVED: Seems that MTS doesn't like that specific Plugin AU. Crashes on song close or when trying to remove this plugin
from the insert slot. So please disregard this question.


3. Hotkeys
Is there a keyboard shortcut to toggle between select part/select notes/add notes?
A lot of clicking here... I use to work very fast. Thus I love keycommands and hate clicking.
The App seems to be very fast in terms of workflow in most areas, so I am probably missing something here.

4. Default Instrument
Is there a way to change the default MTSi Instrument to a different one (or no one at all?)
That way I can go CTRL-F1 and immediately load what I need without having to get rid of the default Instrument every time.
Again, speed is important for me without annoying things that I have to get rid of every single time I add a track.

5. Is this software still in active development?
I ask this because over the years I had already three cases where development/updates completely stalled a short time after
I bought these applications. (Still no change today. Basically abandonware so to speak.)

6. OSX 64bit
Not super important, but I like to know if a 64bit OSX in somewhere on the radar?
I have some 64bit only plugins that I might be able to bridge the other way round but it's a bit of a hassle
and some apps don't like this (crash fest).

7. Editing Latency
I have quite a latency when I edit things. This is also true when I turn a knob on a filter plugin or adjust EQ frequencies for example.
I hear the real result a short time later. A bit unresponsive so to speak. This is also true when using the native
pan knob and volume slider. Until I hear the result it takes a very noticable amount of time.
basically a slew of around half a second. (!!)

8. Moving Notes
It seems that there is no way of moving midi notes around via hotkeys?

9. Sends in Output Submixer
Is there a way to enable sends for the Output Mixer/Submixer of Multioutput instruments in the Pro Version? (However I've
read that we can re-route outputs in the pro-version, so not a big deal if not...)

10. Key commands
Are there hotkeys for the repeat command and for the show/hide controller section?
Are there hotkeys for select left / select right?

11. Multi Out Support for AudioUnits
Looks like that at least with the output mixer in the demo version no multioutput is supported for AU plugins.
Is this enabled at least in the pro version via routing to other tracks? (EDIT: Seems to be plugin specific. Found the first AU (MachFive)
that has the Outputs visible in the AU version as well... But MachFive doesn't play nice with MTS at all.
Neither VST nor AU. A lot of plugins seem to be acting very buggy here. Sometimes the VSTs sometimes
the AUs. I got a **loooot** of crashes with a lot of plugs that I use on a daily basis in practically every main DAW outthere...)


12. Duplicate Track
How do I duplicate a whole track/mixer strip including everything?

13. Plugin Hotkey Focus
Can't figure out how it should be. Should the plugin have hotkey focus when opened or MTS?
It's basically like this: Sometimes the plugins have focus and the Transport commands work, sometimes the plugin loses focus
after some time. Sometimes the plugin has focus but the transport commands don't work, sometimes nothing works anymore
and every combination thereof... That's very confusing indeed, lol...
(Probably connected to the fact that sometimes plugins "stay on top" and sometimes not...)

14. Notes Editor: Legato
I can't get it to do anything. Can someone explain how this works? It seems to work different like it
usually in other apps... (Or maybe doesn't work at all?)

(Also the CTRL-M command in the FX window doesn't seem to do anything. CTRL-B bypasses, CTRL-P gives me
the preset list, but CTRL-M does nothing. I also tried all other modifiers just to be sure. Also checked it on the multieffect.)

Thanks & best,
tL.



(By the way: The preset system is awesome. The keyboard support for mute/solo/bypass/opening slots and loading presets
and the general layout is so good that I am basically flying through MTS after half a day of Demo use.
More hotkeys for even more speed would be very appreciated in case I' ll bite the bullet with the pro version.)
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Lytz1 »

I have found several odd behaviors already.
Sequencer based Instruments like FXPansion Geist 2, Sinevibes Alternator (most of Sinevibes sequencer based plugins crash on play...) and even NI Maschine are completely off. After XFER Nerve I've stopped testing because
they all behave the same and bottom line is that something odd is going on.

It seems however that it is just the GUI display that's lagging, first I thought the sync/time
information was incorrect.

Geist for example internally visually starts on Beat 5 when MTS starts on Beat 1.
Everything seems to be off at least 3 beats (visually).
Some other plugins with internal sequencers crash right away when playback is started.

This would go hand in hand with the previously mentioned lag on editing plugins
visually and just after a short while get the audible result I've mentioned in the post above.
I hope this can be fixed with a hotfix update and in an acceptable timeframe.

(BTW: I am on OSX 10.10 Yosemite)

Thanks,
tL.
Support
Posts: 1717
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Support »

3.
No, but the Select Notes mode allows for using the Options key to add a note. Add Notes has something similar. You can read about this if you hover the mouse over one of these buttons.

4.
Studio-->Preferences-->MIDI Options-->Dflt Instrument

5.
Absolutely!

6.
It's on the radar, but it's going to take some time.

7.
Audio is processed about half a second in advance for performance reasons. Hence the delay you're experiencing.

This doesn't apply to situations where latency is important of course: a recording synth responds to knob changes immediately for example.

This also explains why the GUI of 3rd party plugins leads by about half a second. Plugihs can compensate for this (it's part of the VST specs), but most don't do this unfortunately.

8.
That's true.

9.
The output mixer outputs are available as sidechain signals. So you can use a Dynamics effect in another track and use its sidechain to route a signal to that track.

10.
No

11.
Plugins that have more than two outputs are supposed to get an output mixer. Please mention any plugins where this isn't the case.

Please mention some plugins that crash and I'll add them to the list for investigation.

12.
There's no one-click way to do this. You can create a copy with no data like this: Click a track's name box. Then rightclick the 'Alternate Take' option. An 'Alternate take in new track' option appears now. This gets you a new track with the same settings. Now you can use open both editors and use copy-and-paste.

13.
The keyboard is supposed to control the transport if a plugin is visible. But some plugins take keyboard focus so this no longer works. You can try clicking the righthand part of a plugin window (the 'MultitrackStudio" part), this will make MultitrackStudio try to reclaim keyboard focus.

14.
Legato makes notes longer so they connect with the next notes. But it only does this if the gap is very small to begin with. It won't turn a 1/8 into a 1/4 for example.


Ctrl-M toggle the sidechain Monitor button. The Lite edition doesn't have sidechains. And most effects don't have a sidechain input of course.


Giel Bremmers
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Lytz1 »

Support wrote:3.

4.
Studio-->Preferences-->MIDI Options-->Dflt Instrument
Alright. I see that there is no option to set it to none. Probably because this isn't possible.
(Would be good though, that way inserting instruments would work
via keyboard only: alt-cmd-m, ctrl-f1, type name and done.)
Support wrote: 5.
Absolutely!
Very good indeed. Thanks for letting me knonw.
Support wrote: 6.
It's on the radar, but it's going to take some time.
That's okay as long as it is considered.
Support wrote: 7.
Audio is processed about half a second in advance for performance reasons. Hence the delay you're experiencing.
This also explains why the GUI of 3rd party plugins leads by about half a second.
Ah I see.. Possible that this is also lowering the CPU consumption in general considerably?
I was wondering why some of my heavy duty plugins and instruments are using way less
CPU cycles than in most other applications.
Support wrote: 9.
The output mixer outputs are available as sidechain signals. So you can use a Dynamics effect in another track and use its sidechain to route a signal to that track.
Good enough.
Support wrote: 10.
No
Bummer.
Support wrote: 11.
Plugins that have more than two outputs are supposed to get an output mixer. Please mention any plugins where this isn't the case.
Please mention some plugins that crash and I'll add them to the list for investigation.
Okay. Will do so and make a list. There are quite some. :) Shall I send them to support when I am done?
From the top of my head NI Battery should have multiout for sure. Doesn't in the AU version. (Both Battery 3 and Battery 4)
There are more but I forgot. I'll write them down when I come across them.

(Crash-wise the most critical to me right away are the Sinevibes Plugins that crash on playback start.
There are free demos on the Sinevibes site. The ones I know for sure crash on start are Sinevibes Sequential
and Sinevibes Alternator. These are usually rock solid AudioUnit only plugins.
My guess is this might be because of the "offset" lag by MTS you mentioned.
If you find something there would be nice to let me know. Maybe the DEV can fix it himself
in the plugin, as I am in contact with this DEV as well as with some others
on a loosely basis. I can contact him directly as soon as I have some info.)


Support wrote: 12.
There's no one-click way to do this. You can create a copy with no data like this: Click a track's name box. Then rightclick the 'Alternate Take' option. An 'Alternate take in new track' option appears now. This gets you a new track with the same settings. Now you can use open both editors and use copy-and-paste.
I see. A bit of a workaround but it's possible. That's okay. When I think about it:
Wouldn't it be even faster when copying to a second midi stream and then split the midi stream?
(splitting duplicates also the instrument, right?)
Support wrote: 13.
You can try clicking the righthand part of a plugin window (the 'MultitrackStudio" part), this will make MultitrackStudio try to reclaim keyboard focus.
Oh, that's good to know.
Support wrote: 14.
Legato makes notes longer so they connect with the next notes. But it only does this if the gap is very small to begin with. It won't turn a 1/8 into a 1/4 for example.
Ah, I see. I was expecting a "remove overlaps" or "make all selected notes legato" behaviour. But no problem.
Support wrote: Ctrl-M toggle the sidechain Monitor button. The Lite edition doesn't have sidechains. And most effects don't have a sidechain input of course.
Alright, I think I meant originally this:
PDF MANUAL wrote:Effect Slots

B: Toggle effect's Bypass button
M: Open all slots in the same group of slots (eg. all slots in a track, or in a Multi Effect etc.)
So this is on mac CMD-M, right?
Can't test right now, but I thought I tried this as well. Will try again later.

Thanks & best,
tL.
Support
Posts: 1717
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Support »

Lytz1 wrote:Alright. I see that there is no option to set it to none. Probably because this isn't possible.
(Would be good though, that way inserting instruments would work
via keyboard only: alt-cmd-m, ctrl-f1, type name and done.)
"alt-cmd-m, ctrl-f1, f3, type name" would work (if OS X doesn't use F3 for something else).
Lytz1 wrote: Okay. Will do so and make a list. There are quite some. :) Shall I send them to support when I am done?
That would be great.
Lytz1 wrote: When I think about it: Wouldn't it be even faster when copying to a second midi stream and then split the midi stream? (splitting duplicates also the instrument, right?)
Never thought of that :-)
Lytz1 wrote:M: Open all slots in the same group of slots (eg. all slots in a track, or in a Multi Effect etc.)

So this is on mac CMD-M, right?
No, it's press M down - click an effect slot - release M.
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Lytz1 »

"
alt-cmd-m, ctrl-f1, f3, type name" would work (if OS X doesn't use F3 for something else).
Hm. F3 does nothing. But I have to see if there's something on OSX assigned to it. But usually I have everything disabled completely.
(at least nothing else is happening when I press it.)

What is F3 supposed to do?

That would be great.
Good, already on it. What about crash reports (hard/cold crashes) that crash MTS so hard, it doesn't generate a
report on its own. Do you need the backtrace or the OSX diagnostics crashlog (.crash)?
There is one in particular that might be interesting because it looks rather heavy...
(thread one crashes with nearly 500 lines...) :)

No, it's press M down - click an effect slot - release M.
Aaaah, thanks. Never would have thought about that.

Best,
tL.
Support
Posts: 1717
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Support »

Lytz1 wrote:What is F3 supposed to do?
On a Mac: nothing :oops:
It's Cmd-F, it pops up the effect/instrument selector.
Lytz1 wrote:What about crash reports (hard/cold crashes) that crash MTS so hard, it doesn't generate a
report on its own. Do you need the backtrace or the OSX diagnostics crashlog (.crash)?
Not really. If the problem is easily reproducible this information will pop up automatically.


Giel Bremmers
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Lytz1 »

Support wrote: On a Mac: nothing :oops:
It's Cmd-F, it pops up the effect/instrument selector.
Aaaah, awesome. Thanks a lot.


tL.
Support
Posts: 1717
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Support »

Lytz1 wrote:Okay. Will do so and make a list. There are quite some. :) Shall I send them to support when I am done?
From the top of my head NI Battery should have multiout for sure. Doesn't in the AU version. (Both Battery 3 and Battery 4)
There are more but I forgot. I'll write them down when I come across them.

(Crash-wise the most critical to me right away are the Sinevibes Plugins that crash on playback start.
There are free demos on the Sinevibes site. The ones I know for sure crash on start are Sinevibes Sequential
and Sinevibes Alternator. These are usually rock solid AudioUnit only plugins.
My guess is this might be because of the "offset" lag by MTS you mentioned.
If you find something there would be nice to let me know. Maybe the DEV can fix it himself
in the plugin, as I am in contact with this DEV as well as with some others
on a loosely basis. I can contact him directly as soon as I have some info.)
Could you please contact the Sinevibes developer? I mentioned the Sequential problem and he'd like to know how his other plugins are doing.

Meanwhile the 'sidechain an output to another track' and 'missing output mixer' problems have been fixed. Some crashes are being investigated. Please let me know if you find any other AU problems.


Giel Bremmers
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Lytz1 »

Support wrote:

Could you please contact the Sinevibes developer? I mentioned the Sequential problem and he'd like to know how his other plugins are doing.

Meanwhile the 'sidechain an output to another track' and 'missing output mixer' problems have been fixed. Some crashes are being investigated. Please let me know if you find any other AU problems.


Giel Bremmers
Alright, contacted him, waiting for response. Good news with the Sidechain and the Output-Mixer.



Some more AU weirdness here:

Some examples of AU plugins that instantiate mono (!)
(i.e.: if you insert them on the master, the output you hear will change to mono.)

Examples: Lexicon PCM Hall, D16 Decimort 2, 4dx Looprecorder.

My guess is that this is probably because some Audio Units have Mono/Stereo *and* Multi-Out configurations available in mainstream DAWs
like Logic or Digital Performer. (So there are multiple options to select from for one plugin in different channel configurations)
Probably MTS picks the first available one, which might be the mono-config. And thus the output changes to mono?


More internal sequencer stuff:

XFER Nerve (Drummachine plugin) only plays back when GUI is open... (Huh?) When closed it refuses to play back.

Glitchmachines Cataract AU (Also relies on internal sequencer) refuses to play when starting song from beginning.
When switching presets while playback is running, internal sequencer works and plugin plays audio.
Stop and play song from start, no more audio....

Also encountered regular buffer underruns so far on Glitchmachines Cataract, D16 Devastor 2 and some more Sinevibes stuff.

Best,
tL.
Support
Posts: 1717
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Demoing MTS, couple of questions popped up already...

Post by Support »

Thanks!


Giel Bremmers
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