Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Discuss working with MultitrackStudio.
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Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Lytz1 »

Okay, so this is cold shower time again it seems...

Some very annoying performance issues are popping up at around 8+ tracks and some VST plugins added to the tracks.
It looks like a system at its limits, but it's absolutely not. (4-6% on all readings/meters).
The meters are not fluid, they are "Stepping", same for the pointer in the overview bar or the individual transport-locators in
edit view.

Multitrack Midi Editing is basically not possible. When I draw a rectangle across some notes
in the Multitrack Midi Editing Window, the delay until it is actually drawn and the notes show as selected is around a second, sometimes more depending on shown content.
(when content from multiple tracks is shown at the same time it is impossible to work with this at all).

So: Is there anything that can be done or adjusted via a .config or .plist file or something like that
to set some advanced or "under the hood" graphical settings? I see that there are no options at all
in the software, so maybe there's another option? Changing size seems to be the only thing and it does nothing, tried all options here.

FYI: I have a dual 30-inch screen setup running at 2560x1600. Maybe the code is so old that it can't handle this resolution adequately?
Or can't take advantage of some of today's GPU features? Don't know... I mean MTS isn't graphically demanding like FL Studio is, and FL Studio
runs smooth as silk with track counts in the 40s and CPU load in the 70s so something certainly is way off here...

The only other App I know that similarly goes down in performance that fast is Sensomusic Hollyhock 3, which is very graphical demanding
and also a 32-bit app. I am not sure if this might have something to do with I though.. However, it still performs better much than MTS though...


Thanks & best,
tL.


(I should add that my system is pretty strong. I usually don't have these kinds of issues. Especially not when not much is shown on screen and
CPU load is that low. System is a 12-core MacPro, OSX 10.12.6, 32GB 1333Mhz Ram and NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Card with 2GB Ram...)
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Lytz1 »

I tested this now without *any* vst plugins at all and performance is much better.

Still nowhere fluid, but not game-breaking anymore.
What I don't understand however is how the performance can go down the drain with no strain on CPU?


I'll do some more testing.

tL.


Also the delay when I push the normal Tracks Edit button on the right side: Until the pane pops up and shows the content
the delay is still around half a second and the pane with the content flashes briefly white (white box draw problem) before showing the content.[
But maybe that's normal? Not sure.
Support
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Support »

Strange, I don't see that at all on our Macs (which are much less powerful than yours). I can edit 60 tracks in the Multi MIDI Editor no problem (that's without VST plugins).

Is this new in version 9?

Do the VST plugins use a lot of memory?


Giel Bremmers
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Lytz1 »

Okay, so the massive breakdown in performance must have been a VST issue. Pretty sure about that.
Still uncertain WHY, but pretty much looks like it.
(EDIT: Yeah, potentially memory might be an issue. I think Reaktor might take quite some...)

Still, however, because of a bit of general sluggishness, the original questions about anything performance related optimization (from user-side) stands.
Especially the performance with multi-track midi editing . This bugs me the most.

Will continue to check some things though...

Can't remember about 8.x versions. Also, the screens and the main computer and system are pretty new.

Best,
tL.
Saz
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:44 am

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Saz »

Several years ago, I had some Major GUI issues on my Windows 7 DAW, after a Windows update.

After too many hours of troubleshooting and lots of advice here, I found the solution - a VST plugin update.

Turns out my main guitar amp modelling software had 2 small updates to address a problem the Windows update created and I missed them.

Although you are on a Mac, I think you are right to suspect a plugin - they can cause some crazy behavior.
Moozeeck
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:49 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Moozeeck »

I worked with 35 tracks that had 10 VSTi's (some of them heavy on memory) and two audio tracks. It runed smoothly on Windows 10, Intel Celeron with 2 gb RAM.
CPU usage was around 50-60%.
I had no issues with editing, recording or playback.
Support
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Support »

Lytz1 wrote:Also the delay when I push the normal Tracks Edit button on the right side: Until the pane pops up and shows the content
the delay is still around half a second
Does this also happen with a one track song, without any VSTs? It should respond instantly.


Giel Bremmers
Lytz1
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Lytz1 »

No no, I also tested this with just Midi Tracks, no VST plugins at all... Still bad and lagging
when a lot of stuff is shown on screen. I am pretty sure this is a graphical issue.

HOWEVER: I just updated to High Sierra 10.13.1 (from Sierra 10.12.6 ) and performance is *much* better.
Still not superfluid when a lot is going on onscreen, but definitely in a range that is completely acceptable
from a working perspective. Especially in the normal tracks window things are waaaaay better now.
(i.e. the white window flash is gone as well, which occurred very briefly when I clicked the Edit button. Still a small lag time, but nothing too bad.
Hard to come up with a number. Probably around 100ms +/- 20ms)


Now don't ask me why this is... I have no idea. I just took the chance. Also, I wanted to update anyways before 10.14 comes...
I just checked three songs that were awfully behaving before and there is quite a difference now.


Best,
tL.

(Still wondering if MTS can make use of stuff like "use PBO" (Pixel Buffer Objects) or "only paint changed rectangles"
or Wait for VSync" or something like that. Tweaking this kind of stuff can make quite a difference in other applications.
Also AFAIK a dual monitor setup can cause performance problems sometimes when not taken into consideration by some apps. )
Support
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Support »

Lytz1 wrote:"only paint changed rectangles"
It does do that.
It's what I'm looking into right now actually. I have the impression your computer doesn't report all the individual rectangles, but just one big rectangle. I can more or less get the behavior you describe if I make the code paint the whole window instead of just the parts that have changed. But this is so basic it's hard to imagine Apple doesn't get that right for all their display adapters.


Giel Bremmers
jonljacobi
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:09 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by jonljacobi »

Several years later, and while I'm not seeing the lassoing issues described, I am seeing very slow waveform rendering, The meters and transport readout aren't particularly smooth either. This is on a 5K iMac with a Core i7-6770 and Radeon R9 M390 and 32GB of memory. CPU usage listed by MtS (4-6%) and Activity monitor (11-12%) are very low.
Support
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by Support »

The graphics are actually too efficient to your liking ;-)
jonljacobi wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:39 am I am seeing very slow waveform rendering
The audio graphs are updated when audio is coming in for (audio) processing. This becomes very apparent when the editors are zoomed out horizontally.

Most software uses temporary files or large chunks of memory to cache audio data for graphics. MTS tries to keep as much resources available for audio as possible.
jonljacobi wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:39 am The meters and transport readout aren't particularly smooth either
They're updated at a rather low framerate. This reduces the risk of graphics causing audio glitches.


Giel Bremmers
jonljacobi
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:09 pm

Re: Graphical Performance issues. Questions how to optimize.

Post by jonljacobi »

That's kind of what I figured. But perhaps an option for smoother meter and transport graphics at a small loss in audio performance. Actually, ditch or option the PPQ and the transport wouldn't even need a higher priority.

I only mention this because a lot of tire-kickers might not spot the super low CPU and memory usage and interpret the judder negatively. If I'm being totally honest, it bugs me a bit on the gut level as well.
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