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 Post subject: Entry method (Hate it)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:46 am 
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Location: Annapolis MD. USA
I like to compose in the score window, but I hate the new way of entry that pop up just plain sucks! And I have tried to get used to it!
I just spent another tedious frustrating couple of hours trying to enter and change notes. The drag for duration, move and pitch handles are fine but the entry pop up IMO sucks. Why can't we just touch a note to select it? and touch a place in the staff to enter a note. There has to be a better way then what is there now I saw nothing wrong with the previous way it worked. PLEASE PLEASE bring it back. The way it is is a PITA! All the above is my personal opinion and I know others like it as it is but I don't. Feel free to say how much you love it but I don't. THIS IS MY OPINION.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:37 am 
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uncle808us wrote:
Why can't we just touch a note to select it?

You can: press it for half a second (until the selector pops up), and it's selected.


Giel Bremmers


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:31 pm 
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Giel, you've only responded to his minor point, and not his major point.

On one hand, I understand the change, and it does make good use of the touch screen, letting you pan/scroll around, and only do edits/selections with a deliberate long-press.

In the piano-roll editor, I think it works fairly well and it solves other problems. There is something mentally a little tiring about the "lag" of putting notes in, because the holding feels like time going by each time you have to hold a long press, especially if I'm doing it for a while.

However, in the score editor, it doesn't work well, because when you add a note, it is under your finger and you can't see where it is in time or pitch. This needs to be fixed. I don't use the score editor, I'm strictly a piano roll editor. However, if someone prefers to work that way, the notes being manipulated should not be underneath the finger.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:55 pm 
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stubbsonic wrote:
There is something mentally a little tiring about the "lag" of putting notes in, because the holding feels like time going by each time you have to hold a long press, especially if I'm doing it for a while.

I get that, and it would be nice if this could be improved.

stubbsonic wrote:
However, in the score editor, it doesn't work well, because when you add a note, it is under your finger and you can't see where it is in time or pitch. This needs to be fixed.

The note becomes visible if you move you finger further down. I don't think this is what people complain about, or is it?


Giel Bremmers


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:07 pm 
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Support wrote:
stubbsonic wrote:
...when you add a note, it is under your finger and you can't see where it is in time or pitch. This needs to be fixed.

The note becomes visible if you move you finger further down. I don't think this is what people complain about, or is it?


The note sometimes becomes visible if I move my finger down, but usually the note moves down with my finger and is completely blocked the entire time.

I don't know what people complain about. As I said, I don't use the score editor. I just noticed right away, that not being able to see the note as I drag vertically made it unworkable.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:39 am 
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stubbsonic wrote:
The note sometimes becomes visible if I move my finger down, but usually the note moves down with my finger and is completely blocked the entire time.

That's odd, it's not supposed to do that and I can't reproduce it.


Giel Bremmers


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:08 pm 
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Perhaps try some different zoom levels? It's a consistent issue here.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:11 pm 
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First let me say again how much I dislike this cumbersome entry method!
Second yes the note is usually under the finger!
This method of entry for the score is terrible!
It is slow and tedious.
Please consider going back to the old way.
Don’t know why you won’t except for thinking this is a better way, or it’s too much work.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:27 pm 
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You will probably get further by suggesting specifically what you don't like, and what you might change. I suppose if you just liked the way it was before, there might be some way to get to a reverted version somehow.

I think the fact that the new note you are trying to place is block by your finger as you move should be easily fixed (since it seems Giel did not intend for it to work that way). However, if he can't reproduce it, that might make it harder for him to address.

OTOH, because now panning and zooming are now disconnected from selecting single notes and adding notes, it does make those processes a bit easier, which is worth something!

Related to note entry, I really wish the snap grid (which is currently defined only by the zoom level) would allow for triplets (or anything other that stock binaries). Granted, I could just work in 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, but it is nice to have the fluidity between dividing beats in 2, 3, 4 (or 5). You can't work that way in MTS, yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:57 am 
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stubbsonic wrote:
I think the fact that the new note you are trying to place is block by your finger as you move should be easily fixed (since it seems Giel did not intend for it to work that way).

How does this work for you in the pianoroll? Can you see the start of the note (not just the end), or is it covered by your finger too?

For the record, this is how I add a note:

- press until the popup selector appears. I do this at the location where I want the note to be.
- move my finger down.
- after moving about 4mm I can hear the note, and it appears in the editor. However, it's more or less covered by my finger, so I continue moving my finger (for another 10..15 mm) until I can nicely see it.
- if the note appears to be too sharp I continue moving my finger down until the note starts moving vertically. if it's too flat I move my finger up until the pitch is OK.

stubbsonic wrote:
Related to note entry, I really wish the snap grid (which is currently defined only by the zoom level) would allow for triplets (or anything other that stock binaries).

That's on the list of requests. It even got looked at recently, but it hasn't been done yet.


Giel Bremmers


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:17 am 
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uncle808us wrote:
Please consider going back to the old way.
Don’t know why you won’t except for thinking this is a better way, or it’s too much work.

Both. The popup selectors solve quite a lot of problems. And they're deeply integrated in all editors, so it can't be changed easily.

I'm very open to improving it, but simply reverting everything back to early 2017 isn't on the table I'm afraid.


Giel Bremmers


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Thanks I ‘ll put this issue on my dead horse list.:)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:44 pm 
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Support wrote:
How does this work for you in the pianoroll? Can you see the start of the note (not just the end), or is it covered by your finger too?


In the pianoroll, with zoom set to 1/8, I can press-hold until the options appear. If I pull down slowly, the note is right under my finger. If I pull down quickly and moving about an inch or so, the note-start is right above my finger. So that seems to be helpful, pulling down about an inch and quickly. As I drag the note downward the distance from my finger increases. However, raising the note upward, my finger "catches up" and covers the note completely after only a few half-steps up.

Ideally, the note would appear about a major 3rd above my finger, and would stay above it as I move.

The behavior is the same in the score editor.

Support wrote:
For the record, this is how I add a note:

- press until the popup selector appears. I do this at the location where I want the note to be.
- move my finger down.
- after moving about 4mm I can hear the note, and it appears in the editor. However, it's more or less covered by my finger, so I continue moving my finger (for another 10..15 mm) until I can nicely see it.
- if the note appears to be too sharp I continue moving my finger down until the note starts moving vertically. if it's too flat I move my finger up until the pitch is OK.


The behavior is the same here, however, as I mentioned, how quickly and far I move my finger affects the distance above my finger that the note appears. I don't like having to snap my finger down like that, but it's better than not seeing the note.

Support wrote:
stubbsonic wrote:
Related to note entry, I really wish the snap grid (which is currently defined only by the zoom level) would allow for triplets (or anything other that stock binaries).

That's on the list of requests. It even got looked at recently, but it hasn't been done yet.


I'm glad to hear that. It's an important part of my workflow and the kind of content I like to make. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:03 pm 
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"Ideally, the note would appear about a major 3rd above my finger, and would stay above it as I move."
I agree maybe this could be fixed.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:41 pm 
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How high are the notes in your pianoroll? Mine are approx. 1/10 inch.

stubbsonic wrote:
If I pull down slowly, the note is right under my finger.

What happens when you move the finger further down? Does the note move down too?

The note should stay where it is until you've moved about 3/4 of an inch down, then the note should start moving down. It does this for me no matter what I do.

stubbsonic wrote:
As I drag the note downward the distance from my finger increases. However, raising the note upward, my finger "catches up" and covers the note completely after only a few half-steps up.

It has a 2:1 'gear ratio', ie. you have to move your 2 inches to move the note an inch. This is intended to improve precision. I think I'll remove this for the pianoroll because it's not necessary (besides, the vertical touch handle on the right doesn't have it either so it's inconsistent).

I think the score editor really needs the 2:1 gear ratio because the notes are too close.


Giel Bremmers


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