Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

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Drdrdaddeo
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:02 pm

Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Drdrdaddeo »

I'd like to convert a three note chordal MIDI passage which is currently assigned to channel 3 (an organ patch), into the same three note chordal passage with each note assigned to a different channel (trumpet, sax and trombone) thus converting a three note organ chord into a multitimbral brass section. Can that be done on a single track? And if not, what would the workaround be?
Drdrdaddeo
Support
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Support »

No. You need to use 3 tracks for that.


Giel Bremmers
Drdrdaddeo
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Drdrdaddeo »

Thank you Giel. Obviously I doing some MIDI recording ON MTS for ipad and I'm much more comfortable recording and editing audio waveforms. I am having difficulty trying to playback some .mid files which I have separated into three different tracks in MTS. My first problem is that for the life of me I can't figure out how to assign different MIDI output Channel numbers to each track. This is important because I will be playing these three different MIDI tracks simultaneously through two different on-board sound genetating apps (Sample Tank CS AND KORG MODULE) and one external MIDI KEYBOARD (a Kurzweil PC1x).

Related is problem #2: Sample Tank is multitimbral but I can only load it into any one MTS track at a time (either as an IAA instrument app, or a virtual MIDI App via audiobus). Module is not multitimbral but it does show up in MTS as both an IAA Instrument AND a VIRTUAL Midi instrument, but it generates sound from neither. However, if I use Audiobus with Module, I am able to generate sound from that app on its assigned track, but then I lose sound from the other track which is IAA LINKED TO SAMPLE TANK. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO SET UP MTS TO PLAYBACK MIDI FILES WHICH ARE ON THREE DIFFERENT MTS TRACKS (PRESUMEABLY EACH ASSIGNED TO DIFFERENT MIDI CHANNELS) AND OUTPUTTED INTO THREE DIFFERENT SOUND GENETATORS (two on-board and one an external MIDI DEVICE)?

Thanks
Drdrdaddeo
stubbsonic
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by stubbsonic »

In answer to your first post, the workaround would be to make two copies of the track (three total, or make 3 copies and keep the original, as a back up). In the first track, delete the bottom two notes of each chord manually. In the second, delete the top & bottom notes. In the third, delete the upper two notes.

If you have lots of material like this, I know MOTU's Digital Performer has special tools to select notes within a chord. That's a pricey solution, so you might need to find someone who owns it. Or download the demo and try it out. Another option might be to see if some notation program can separate out the chords to parts. You'd import the MIDI, then do that process, then export the revised MIDI track. I'm pretty sure Finale can do it, also not cheap. MuseScore is free and might have a function like that.

Personally, if I had to manually edit the track to remove notes as described above, I'd rather not do that on a touch screen.
Drdrdaddeo
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Drdrdaddeo »

Thanks Stubbsonic. Yeah, in response to post number one, that is exactly what I did on my ipad.....and it took hours. And now that its finished, I still didn't know exactly how to assign channel numbers to each track, or to simultaneously output and play those three tracts to on-board IAA and virtual midi instruments, as well as external MIDI sound generators. I'm hoping Giel will help me out. I Love/Hate Midi.

Drdrdaddeo
Support
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Support »

Each instrument pane has a channel selector. It's next to the 'Done' button.

You can use Sample Tank as virtual MIDI instrument in 3 MIDI tracks, and make them use channel 1, 2 and 3.

You don't need Audiobus until it's time to record the MIDI track(s) to audio, so you can mix the song down to an audio file. Let's forget about that for now, and get the rest working first.


Giel Bremmers
Drdrdaddeo
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Drdrdaddeo »

Thanks for the help, Giel. I've have a .mid file with four midi tracks, organ (ch 3) trumpet (ch 1), sax (ch.3) and trombone (ch. 4). The single .mid file resides in audio share. I copy it into a MTS NEW SONG via pasteboard, opening 4 tracts appropriately named. My preferences default MIDI intrument is External Instrument, so each effect window shows EXT, and opens to an instrument pane that indeed confirms my track channel numbers, and allows me to change them. Of course, since my iPAD PRO is not currently midi interfaced to any external MIDI instrument, playback of the 4 tracks yields no sound......all exactly as expected. I have not activated AudioBus at all. Now:

1. In the instrument selection pane, I chose Sample Tank as a virtual MIDI INSTRUMENT, opening the App and assigning it to each instrument pane. Sample tank has two modes, song mode (receives on omni, but is multitimbral) and Live/MULTI (receives on assigned channels and is multitimbral. In Song mode, MTS playback triggers all four tracks to generate sound from Sample Tank, but all four tracks play the same sound, as selected in Sample Tank. I switch to live mode and assign organ, trmpet, sax, and trumbone to the respective track channels. Whalla.....when I hit MTS playback, I hear all four tracks playing back their respective instruments. Interestingly, neither the track mute, nor solo buttons does anything on any track, but the play button will switch individual tracks on and off, but only if pressed while playback is off (no big deal). At this point, changing individual track channel numbers in MTS easily assigns that midi information to whatever instrument in Sample Tank is assigned to that channel number (excellent).

2. It seems all bets are off if Sample Tank had been chosen as an IAA INSTRUMENT (which is a selectable option). So selected, SAMPLE TANK indeed opens into a track, but obviates any further track channel selection and it can only be assigned to one track as an IAA instrument.

3. It also seems worth noting that at this junction MODULE (Korg Module, an excellent uni-timbral sound generating App in my iPAD) appears as a selectable option as both an IAA INSTRUMENT and a Virtual Midi Instrument. Either can be assigned to the instrument pane, but neither generates sound at all even though the App is ON in the background, and can be touch played on its own screen generating sound.

I'm ready for your next set of instructions.

Drdrdaddeo
Support
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Support »

1. The track's volume fader, pan knob and mute/solo buttons won't work if the app doesn't respond to standard volume/pan MIDI messages.
SampleTank has a "MIDI Controllers" option. Switching that on will probably solve the problem.

2.
Drdrdaddeo wrote:It seems all bets are off if Sample Tank had been chosen as an IAA INSTRUMENT
Correct. There can be only one instance of a particular app, that's a limitation of IAA.

3. Aren't there any MIDI related settings in Module that need tweaking?


Giel Bremmers
Drdrdaddeo
Posts: 68
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Drdrdaddeo »

Thanks so much for this lessons. Hopefully it will be helpful to other MTS users as well.

1. I mistakenly said earlier that SampleTank was multitimbral in SONG mode. Actually SampleTank is UNI-TIMBRAL in song mode, and MULTI-TIMBRAL in live/multi mode. However, I have already made enormous progress here. Most of my earlier problems are now solved as I can now use both MTS and/or Sample Tank as excellent on-board MIDI sound generators for recording hundreds of superb musical sounds......thank you so much, Giel.

2. Even though there can only be ONE instance of a particular Midi Sound Generating App that can be used as an IAA Insrtument per mulltitrack MIDI MTS song, there does seem to be a distinct advantage to using IAA, when available. And that is because the sound generated by that IAA-linked APP can be instantly converted into an audio track containing the MIDI generated sound as a .wav audio file (by simply holding the track ID button and chosing "Copy to Audio Track").....that is incredible!! Thank you Giel! From that point forward that new audio track can be handled as any other traditional audio file....i.e. with all the editing bells and whistles that MTS IS FAMOUS FOR.....HURRAY!! That option is not available with Sound Tank when used as a Virtual MIDI Instrument, but presumably it is via AudioBus (hopefully the focus of my next lesson).

3. No. The only MIDI option in MODULE (whether chosen as an IAA or Virtual MIDI instrument) is the MIDI receive channel (either Omni or a select MIDI channel). And when linked as an IAA instrument, MODULE opens to it basic APP, which doesn't provide a means of assigning an MTS track MIDI send channel NUMBER..the source of my earlier confusion. Howerver, no matter how you chose MODULE, no sound is generated via MTS. A volume bar in MTS does appears without sound when MODULE Virtual MIDI instrument is chosen, but no volume bar output is generated at all when MODULE is chosen as an IAA instrument. In both instances, the MODULE App Opens in the background and can still be played from its own App screen or from a USB keyboard, with full ipad sound. Importantly, I am able to generate MTS sound with MODULE when that App is assigned as the input device via AudioBus 2 (and MTS is the output device). Hopefully you can now guide me in how to record such sound from MODULE or Sample Tank, or how to convert it to a separate .wav audio track in MTS. In the past I have mainly used MODULE (via its Bluetooth function) to output its outstanding live keyboard sounds using my USB Keyboard blue toothed into my ipad and outputted via USB INTO A 24 mhz stereo DAT converyer, and then into house PA systems during live performances. MODULE works beautifully for live performance, but it seems much less user friendly for recording purposes.

THANKS FOR ALL THE GUIDANCE!

Drdrdaddeo
Drdrdaddeo
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Drdrdaddeo »

Hiya Giel,

I'm still waiting on my next lesson: How do I get midi tracts that are generating sound from either SampleTank or Module (via AudioBus) to "copy to new Audio Track"? Using MTS Instruments, that option is always available, but it doesn't appear as an option with SampleTank or Korg Module. I thought using Audiobus would somehow facilitate this, but i haven't figured out how to do it. So how do I get the sound played by either of those Two Apps coverted into audio tracks?

Thanks,
Drdrdaddeo
Support
Posts: 1717
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:17 pm

Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Support »

You have to record audio tracks yourself:

- in Audiobus, load Sampletank as input, MTS as output
- in MTS add an audio track, and select Audiobus as input source.
- now make sure the MIDI track is in playback mode. Switch the audio track to recording mode.
- start transport, and wait until the MIDI track has finished playing


Giel Bremmers
Drdrdaddeo
Posts: 68
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Re: Can a single MIDI track be made multi-timbral.

Post by Drdrdaddeo »

Got it! That seems to work quite well. Oh, and for other users of KORG MODULE, don't forget that Sounds are generated at 44Khz sample rate from that app. If you are setting up your MTS songs using 48kb sample rate, the sounds generated from Korg Module are going to be detuned, and thus quite a bit out of tune from the rest of your song. The resolution is to set up the MTS song propert SAMPLE RATE AT 44khz. Then everything will be in tune (a problem Giel helped me figure out a while back).

Sorry to pester you so much, Giell, and thanks again.

Drdrdaddeo
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