I spent six frustrating hours trying to track edit a single 2.5 minute stereo audio track which was recorded somewhat sloppily by me on piano to one stereo track of MTS on my iPad. I was extremely surprised by the current track editing inadequacies and limitations of MTS, and wanted to make sure it is not just my naïveté (and/or the extremely attenuated MTS user manual) which has led to my frustration. Thus, I post the questions/comments/suggestions below and would genuinely welcome some feedback:
1. Thus far I am unable to find either a track split, or a track merge function anywhere. Without a track split, timing movement of large sections of track is very laborious, requiring extensive dragging of disappearing highlighted sections in various directions, usually across long sections of "out-of-view" audio (especially when audio is zoomed in). Related, the very insensitive finger pinch zoom feature is almost completely useless, generally failing to zoom in or out to any consistent desired amount, and often not zooming/squeezing at all. A track zoom button is desperately needed and there is plenty of space beneath or to the left of the expanded track editor window to create one. I haven't a clue how, or if, track merge works at all in MTS (no real thorough discussions on track editing in the manual exist) even though it works perfectly and easily (as does Track Split) during audio editing in GarageBand (which is basically a much more rudimentary/introductory music editor). Surprisingly I'm finding myself editing audio tracts in GarageBand and then importing them into MTS, just because GB's track editor works so much more easily. Hopefully updates to my knowledge base and/or MTS's track editing capabilities will obviate this need.
2. In general, far too much dragging of very small items is required during track editing in MTS for iPad. While the MTS scrub bar drags easily though it's lower box, it does little other than scrub and cycle, and woefully does not appear anywhere on the track edit window, or move at all, by simply touching the edit window to bring it into view. Related, the locator bar at the top is very small and the absence of a rewind button mandates constant dragging of it across the top of the iPad, instead of homing to start with a single button touch. Further, touching the location bar to relocate the scrub bar can result in accidental touching of nearby buttons, resulting in the opening of various top-located buttons instead of moving the location bar to any defined area. There is a small, green start button on the locator tract itself which seems completely irrelevant, yet constantly moves about, including into undesired areas where it can be accidentally touched during editing or when using the designated start-stop button. This results in the visible audio track being moved completely out of view. Related, the track edit button itself is located on the far left lower side and must be constantly activated and inactivated in order to manipulate user-highlighted areas for editing. Such areas are themselves somewhat difficult to establish given the absence of track split capabilities, easy zoomability, or instant scrub bar locator functions). The majority of users will be statistically right handed, thus having to constantly reach right-to-left completely across the iPad to activate/inactivate the single track editor button. One inadequate touch and your carefully dragged out, yellow highlighted areas may subsequently disappear. The track edit button would be far more convenient (and less error-prone) if located on the right side for easy and more reliable access.
3. My "Audio Input" button, when depressed shows a window which says "Audio Input is Not Available"...even though my keyboard's stereo output is indeed plugged in, functioning, showing stereo signal through the track indicated, and fully recordable. What is this button's function?
Summarily, I found the track editing function of MTS for iPad to be ergonomic sub-optimal, very difficult and frustrating to use in its present version, and considerably inferior even to GarageBand, an otherwise entry level multitrack recorder. However I do love the many other features and enormous potential that MTS for iPad has to offer. I genuinely hope that future updates to MTS FOR iPad, and continued advances in my own knowledge base with your assistance, will help me move past these most basic of limitations.
Thanks for allowing us to submit these posts,
Ken Hardy, M.D., Ph.D.
Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
You can use the left hand thumb to switch editor modes. You don't have to use the button(s), you can swipe over the left hand part of the editor:
You can swipe over the bottom bar to move the editors horizontally:
This works regardless of the editor mode. Pinching the bottom bar is possible as well.
The green triangle in the position bar is the most recent transport start position. If you tap the position bar there it'll take you back.
Tricking people into recording a decent take rather than edit a bad one was actually a design goal for the iPad version. Didn't succeed apparently.
Giel Bremmers
You can swipe over the bottom bar to move the editors horizontally:
This works regardless of the editor mode. Pinching the bottom bar is possible as well.
The green triangle in the position bar is the most recent transport start position. If you tap the position bar there it'll take you back.
It says 'Audio Input Level', not 'Audio Input'. A recording level fader appears if the current sound device supports that.KenHardy wrote:"Audio Input is Not Available"
Rhetorical question: what do you enjoy more, playing piano or editing tracks?KenHardy wrote:I spent six frustrating hours trying to track edit a single 2.5 minute stereo audio track which was recorded somewhat sloppily by me on piano
Tricking people into recording a decent take rather than edit a bad one was actually a design goal for the iPad version. Didn't succeed apparently.
Giel Bremmers
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
LOL!
Truth be known I'm a much better writer/editor/producer/arranger than player.....poor chops, but rich thoughts and a
great ear! Thanks on the swipe suggestions which should be very helpful. The bottom bar swipe is a great trick....no buttons for klutzes like me to accidentally trigger. I still really think MTS has GOT to at least have locator touch, track SPLIT/MERGE functions, and a rewind button for faster, easier edits and pre-mixdown track cleanup. But I love the volume editor, the fade in/out function, and the very simple and precise punch in/out function. As a player, Billy Joel I'm not.....but to hear my final MTS-edited version of "She's Got a Way".....you would think I am!
Still an MTS fan,
Ken
P.S. It would seem that the Griffin Studio Connect interface does not support the recording level fader. However it works beautifully otherwise with the iPad/MTS combo, and that fader isn't really needed at all (now there's a great spot for that new REWIND button!) It is important NOT to disconnect/reconnect the iPad from the input interface with MTS running in the background......major static distortion results, "device initialization" flashes, iPad freezes, nasty telephone calls from Bill Gates, etc. Easy to forget and grab the ipad to do post recording edits from the easy chair.....just make sure to hard close MTS before reconnecting the iPad to the interface. Reopen MTS after ipad is comfortably back in the saddle with no other apps running in the background.
Truth be known I'm a much better writer/editor/producer/arranger than player.....poor chops, but rich thoughts and a
great ear! Thanks on the swipe suggestions which should be very helpful. The bottom bar swipe is a great trick....no buttons for klutzes like me to accidentally trigger. I still really think MTS has GOT to at least have locator touch, track SPLIT/MERGE functions, and a rewind button for faster, easier edits and pre-mixdown track cleanup. But I love the volume editor, the fade in/out function, and the very simple and precise punch in/out function. As a player, Billy Joel I'm not.....but to hear my final MTS-edited version of "She's Got a Way".....you would think I am!Still an MTS fan,
Ken
P.S. It would seem that the Griffin Studio Connect interface does not support the recording level fader. However it works beautifully otherwise with the iPad/MTS combo, and that fader isn't really needed at all (now there's a great spot for that new REWIND button!) It is important NOT to disconnect/reconnect the iPad from the input interface with MTS running in the background......major static distortion results, "device initialization" flashes, iPad freezes, nasty telephone calls from Bill Gates, etc. Easy to forget and grab the ipad to do post recording edits from the easy chair.....just make sure to hard close MTS before reconnecting the iPad to the interface. Reopen MTS after ipad is comfortably back in the saddle with no other apps running in the background.
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
So the biggest problem you have with the editors is that you can't move very small parts because it will resize the selected part instead of move it. And then you have to zoom in so you can move the part. Correct?
Giel Bremmers
This doesn't happen with, for example, GarageBand?KenHardy wrote:It is important NOT to disconnect/reconnect the iPad from the input interface with MTS running in the background......major static distortion results, "device initialization" flashes, iPad freezes, nasty telephone calls from Bill Gates, etc. Easy to forget and grab the ipad to do post recording edits from the easy chair.....just make sure to hard close MTS before reconnecting the iPad to the interface. Reopen MTS after ipad is comfortably back in the saddle with no other apps running in the background.
Giel Bremmers
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
Yes, the distortion problem does also happen with GarageBand using the Griffin interface when initialized incorrectly (I actually exchanged my first Griffin interface thinking it was defective). I'm not complaining here, but rather only noting a consistent and easily remediable problem with the iPad air/Griffin interface, which users will routinely encounter and otherwise can easily avoid.
I am grateful that you asked what the biggest problems with the editors are in my view:
1. ABSENCE OF A TRACK SPLIT FUNCTION: To correct a small timing error in the middle of an otherwise perfect audio track, using MTS iPad you must first zoom the audio all the way in to locate a potential split point (which is hard to do accurately without a zoom button). Then you need to reach leftward all the way across the ipad in order to tap the track edit activation button. Then you must tap somewhere near your desired split point, expand the highlighted area to make it large enough to grab its edges, and drag its left boarder to your desired split point. Then the fun really begins: Now you must drag the right boarder of the highlighted area in an extreme rightward direction...all the way to the tracks ending (usually under full zoom conditions). This may require multiple rightward drags until the entire audio section you wish to move is finally highlighted. Then you need to somehow relocate the left boarder of the highlighted area, by scrolling all the way back to the left boarder. And you must not accidentally touch the highlighted area during tha scroll....as it will invisibly move, while the audio itself will not, until you released the touch....at which point the audio will move, yet who knows where). Then you will have to undo the mistake....or start over. To avoid this, after creating the highlighted area of audio you wish to move, you must again reach full leftward across the ipad all the way back to the track edit button, touching it firmly to inactivate it. Only then can you begin dragging the entire track (including the highlighted area) all the way leftward back to find the original left boarder/split point. Next you must reach all the way leftward again across the ipad to re-activate the track edit button so that you can now drag the highlighted area (but not the audio itself) somewhere near where the audio needs to be to fix the timing area. Only after the drag is released, will the audio itself snap to its new position....which may or may not be exactly where you want it to be. The highlighted area may thus need to be moved several times under extreme zoom, before the exact timing location/split point is found (and each time devoid of a timing bar located). Disastrously, if you accidentally didn't touch the edit button firmly enough during one of these multiple activation/inactivation steps, when you touch the highlighted area to move it, it may DISAPPEAR COMPLETELY, and you must start all over again. Really Giel, this is ridiculously time/labor/accident/frustration intensive. On the other hand a simple split function that immediately highlights the entire tract to the right and left of the split point could be activated no matter what the zoom factor. Just touch and drag the highlighted area to the right or left (moving the audio AND the highlighted area simultaneously) to exactly where you want it to be and release....wallah, you're done (2 clicks, one short drag....no errors). I realize that MTS blows GB out of the water, but GB's split function is simple, flawless, and intuitive. Nothing is ever lost that can't be recovered by simply moving the split track segments and dragging the audio back into view.
2. ABSENCE OF A MERGE FUNCTION: No brainier! Intertrack copy/paste works great in MTS IPad, but it does not currently Merge digital audio. Rather, audio pasted into tracks replaces any preexisting audio within the pasted highlighted area. In every multitrack recording, loops, Split sections, note additions etc. usually need to be reduced to a single track for easy post-production mix-down. MTS's excellent punch in/out function minimizes the need for merging, but will never replace it. Even GB can merge tracts....why not MTS??
3. ABSENCE OF A MID-SCREEN TOUCH-ACTIVATED SCRUB BAR/TIMING LOCATOR AND A REWIND BUTTON. As you've correctly noted, screen estate on an ipad is very limited....and as I've noted, repeated dragging of small objects across a small, touch-sensitive screen, is a recipe for error and frustration. The expanded track edit screen is huge. A simple touch within it currently does nothing, but should open and center a timing locator bar at the point of the touch. That locator bar should be allowed to localize splits, paste loops, create left/right highlighted boarders etc.
4. As you inferred in your repy above, activation of both size, zoom, and movement by tap/drag alone IS a big problem which leads to inconsistent and conflicting results. I would suggest leaving zoom strictly under the control of a precise zoom button (similar to how the excellent track expansion button works). Track movement by tap and/or drag will then always yield expected results.
Hope this helps. I'm trying to use MTS/ipad for ALL my music recording/production. My iPad air's fast CPU has been unchallenged by anything MTS has thrown at it thus far, and I suspect CPU-intensive modifications/updates specifically designed for the newer iPads could easily be implemented. I would glady pay handsomely for such Apps or App updates as they become available.
Dr. K
I am grateful that you asked what the biggest problems with the editors are in my view:
1. ABSENCE OF A TRACK SPLIT FUNCTION: To correct a small timing error in the middle of an otherwise perfect audio track, using MTS iPad you must first zoom the audio all the way in to locate a potential split point (which is hard to do accurately without a zoom button). Then you need to reach leftward all the way across the ipad in order to tap the track edit activation button. Then you must tap somewhere near your desired split point, expand the highlighted area to make it large enough to grab its edges, and drag its left boarder to your desired split point. Then the fun really begins: Now you must drag the right boarder of the highlighted area in an extreme rightward direction...all the way to the tracks ending (usually under full zoom conditions). This may require multiple rightward drags until the entire audio section you wish to move is finally highlighted. Then you need to somehow relocate the left boarder of the highlighted area, by scrolling all the way back to the left boarder. And you must not accidentally touch the highlighted area during tha scroll....as it will invisibly move, while the audio itself will not, until you released the touch....at which point the audio will move, yet who knows where). Then you will have to undo the mistake....or start over. To avoid this, after creating the highlighted area of audio you wish to move, you must again reach full leftward across the ipad all the way back to the track edit button, touching it firmly to inactivate it. Only then can you begin dragging the entire track (including the highlighted area) all the way leftward back to find the original left boarder/split point. Next you must reach all the way leftward again across the ipad to re-activate the track edit button so that you can now drag the highlighted area (but not the audio itself) somewhere near where the audio needs to be to fix the timing area. Only after the drag is released, will the audio itself snap to its new position....which may or may not be exactly where you want it to be. The highlighted area may thus need to be moved several times under extreme zoom, before the exact timing location/split point is found (and each time devoid of a timing bar located). Disastrously, if you accidentally didn't touch the edit button firmly enough during one of these multiple activation/inactivation steps, when you touch the highlighted area to move it, it may DISAPPEAR COMPLETELY, and you must start all over again. Really Giel, this is ridiculously time/labor/accident/frustration intensive. On the other hand a simple split function that immediately highlights the entire tract to the right and left of the split point could be activated no matter what the zoom factor. Just touch and drag the highlighted area to the right or left (moving the audio AND the highlighted area simultaneously) to exactly where you want it to be and release....wallah, you're done (2 clicks, one short drag....no errors). I realize that MTS blows GB out of the water, but GB's split function is simple, flawless, and intuitive. Nothing is ever lost that can't be recovered by simply moving the split track segments and dragging the audio back into view.
2. ABSENCE OF A MERGE FUNCTION: No brainier! Intertrack copy/paste works great in MTS IPad, but it does not currently Merge digital audio. Rather, audio pasted into tracks replaces any preexisting audio within the pasted highlighted area. In every multitrack recording, loops, Split sections, note additions etc. usually need to be reduced to a single track for easy post-production mix-down. MTS's excellent punch in/out function minimizes the need for merging, but will never replace it. Even GB can merge tracts....why not MTS??
3. ABSENCE OF A MID-SCREEN TOUCH-ACTIVATED SCRUB BAR/TIMING LOCATOR AND A REWIND BUTTON. As you've correctly noted, screen estate on an ipad is very limited....and as I've noted, repeated dragging of small objects across a small, touch-sensitive screen, is a recipe for error and frustration. The expanded track edit screen is huge. A simple touch within it currently does nothing, but should open and center a timing locator bar at the point of the touch. That locator bar should be allowed to localize splits, paste loops, create left/right highlighted boarders etc.
4. As you inferred in your repy above, activation of both size, zoom, and movement by tap/drag alone IS a big problem which leads to inconsistent and conflicting results. I would suggest leaving zoom strictly under the control of a precise zoom button (similar to how the excellent track expansion button works). Track movement by tap and/or drag will then always yield expected results.
Hope this helps. I'm trying to use MTS/ipad for ALL my music recording/production. My iPad air's fast CPU has been unchallenged by anything MTS has thrown at it thus far, and I suspect CPU-intensive modifications/updates specifically designed for the newer iPads could easily be implemented. I would glady pay handsomely for such Apps or App updates as they become available.
Dr. K
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
Thanks for you comments! Will think about that.
You'll probably want to temporarily bypass any effects in the Master section.
Giel Bremmers
You can mute the other tracks, then export the mix and import the resulting audio file again.KenHardy wrote:2. ABSENCE OF A MERGE FUNCTION
You'll probably want to temporarily bypass any effects in the Master section.
Giel Bremmers
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
That's a very clever trick which should easily circumvent the track merge issue. Having the AudioShare App on board makes that very quick (export the partially muted mix from MTS, reload the merged .wav file from AudioShare back into MTS as a new track, delete the old unmerged tracts.....DONE!). Without AudioShare though, you're stuck with iTunes again, and the need to sync to another computer (uuugggghhh!).
Any tricks to resolve the track split issue??
Many thanks,
Dr. K.
Any tricks to resolve the track split issue??
Many thanks,
Dr. K.
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
This is actually easier than AudioShare. 'export to iTunes' means 'save it in the folder which iTunes can see'. You can then import from this folder again - no cable required.KenHardy wrote:you're stuck with iTunes again, and the need to sync to another computer
If you're in a nostalgic mood you can tap the small Rec label (next to the Sos button) and enable Record Master. Recording audio tracks will now record the Master section output rather then the audio input. Now you can sit back and relax for 3 minutes and watch your tracks being bounced in real time
How long are the parts you move? I assume we're talking beats, not bars?KenHardy wrote:Any tricks to resolve the track split issue??
Giel Bremmers
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
Best case reasoning, there is a small timing error somewhere within the audio which can be easily highlighted and moved a few beats right back into time using MTS's current track editing feature. Worst case reasoning (the one I encountered during my recent recording), is a long audio track recorded without a click because the tempo varies. It briefly loses timing mid-song. The whole audio track then needed to be split mid-way and the entire second half moved up just a couple of half-beats to bring the whole audio track back into time. Piece of cake (click, drag, release) with a designated split function. Without one, I had to struggle with all the steps I described above (complete with multiple errors and redo's).
For various reasons, I continue to struggle with iTunes, and thus try to avoid having to sync to it at all cost. As you've noted, exporting from MTS to iTunes seems to allow immediate reimporting to MTS, no cables required....hurray!! However, where I get confused is trying to export an MTS.zip file (track assembly still underway) from my iPad to DropBox so my collaborator can download it to his MTS FOR MAC for his contributions. I'm currently only able to get the MTS.zip file uploaded to DropBox after a sync transfer of the .zip file from my iPad to my Windows Laptop. AudioShare can easily upload files to DropBox, but to my knowledge, .zip files exported from MTS cannot be directly pasted into, or accessed via AudioShare ......at least I don't think so). Same thing in reverse.....my collaborator easily uploads his own multitrack MTS.ZIP file underway from his Mac to DrobBox. How do I get it from DropBox back into my iPad's MTS App?
Dr. K
For various reasons, I continue to struggle with iTunes, and thus try to avoid having to sync to it at all cost. As you've noted, exporting from MTS to iTunes seems to allow immediate reimporting to MTS, no cables required....hurray!! However, where I get confused is trying to export an MTS.zip file (track assembly still underway) from my iPad to DropBox so my collaborator can download it to his MTS FOR MAC for his contributions. I'm currently only able to get the MTS.zip file uploaded to DropBox after a sync transfer of the .zip file from my iPad to my Windows Laptop. AudioShare can easily upload files to DropBox, but to my knowledge, .zip files exported from MTS cannot be directly pasted into, or accessed via AudioShare ......at least I don't think so). Same thing in reverse.....my collaborator easily uploads his own multitrack MTS.ZIP file underway from his Mac to DrobBox. How do I get it from DropBox back into my iPad's MTS App?
Dr. K
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
In the desktop versions you can rightclick and choose "Select Right". That's not in the iPad version.KenHardy wrote:Worst case reasoning (the one I encountered during my recent recording), is a long audio track recorded without a click because the tempo varies. It briefly loses timing mid-song. The whole audio track then needed to be split mid-way and the entire second half moved up just a couple of half-beats to bring the whole audio track back into time. Piece of cake (click, drag, release) with a designated split function. Without one, I had to struggle with all the steps I described above (complete with multiple errors and redo's).
If there's just this one track you can use the Song Editor. It's for removing parts from the songs etc., so all tracks are affected. Just select a part and tap Delete.
Currently you need a computer and iTunes.KenHardy wrote:How do I get it from DropBox back into my iPad's MTS App?
On top of my head it goes like this:
- click the 'Apps' tab (in iTunes)
- click 'MTS Studio'
- click 'Add'
- browse for you file
Giel Bremmers
Re: Problems with Track Edit for MTS/iPad
"Click, Select Right".....now that's a great editing feature!!. Any chance of adding it to the iPad MTS version? How about an MTS for iPad "Super Pro" version ($99...or $50 to upgrade from base version) that would incorporates all the features we've been discussing and more (touch locator, rewind/zoom buttons, split/merge, select right' etc. etc.). Sign me up as a beta trials user!
And yes, importing and exporting MTS.zip song-in-progress files to- and from- the ipad does indeed seem to work beautifully. But as you've noted, it currently still requires a second computer and a sync through the dreaded iTunes program (uuggghhhh!). Wish there was a work-around for that. iTunes is such a huge, user unfriendly and sluggish program. It ties up my laptop's CPU, wastes my time, causes me to accidentally delete my iPad/iPhone song files, and is graphically confusing, misleading and annoying. It makes downloading of iTunes purchased Apps, songs, videos etc., very, very easy, while discouraging use of non-iTunes song/sound/midi files by making their incorporation and organization within iTunes nearly impossibly complicated and error prone. Yet every line of communication between any iPhone/iPad/iPod/iPoop and the rest of the world seemingly requires prepaid iTunes intervention/obstruction. Still, as a performing/recording musician I'm quick to purchase .mp3 music from iTunes. It is still very affordable and incredibly easy to download.
Thanks Again for the Info and Insights
Dr. K
And yes, importing and exporting MTS.zip song-in-progress files to- and from- the ipad does indeed seem to work beautifully. But as you've noted, it currently still requires a second computer and a sync through the dreaded iTunes program (uuggghhhh!). Wish there was a work-around for that. iTunes is such a huge, user unfriendly and sluggish program. It ties up my laptop's CPU, wastes my time, causes me to accidentally delete my iPad/iPhone song files, and is graphically confusing, misleading and annoying. It makes downloading of iTunes purchased Apps, songs, videos etc., very, very easy, while discouraging use of non-iTunes song/sound/midi files by making their incorporation and organization within iTunes nearly impossibly complicated and error prone. Yet every line of communication between any iPhone/iPad/iPod/iPoop and the rest of the world seemingly requires prepaid iTunes intervention/obstruction. Still, as a performing/recording musician I'm quick to purchase .mp3 music from iTunes. It is still very affordable and incredibly easy to download.
Thanks Again for the Info and Insights
Dr. K