stereo

ravenmusic · Post by **ravenmusic** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:06 pm

Hi, I?m trying to figure out the best way to record an audio stereo file. On opening a new wav file for recording audio vocals or guitar a dialogue box appears that gives an option for the track to be set to stereo, but the recording on the track always records to one channel, the right channel.

I?ve read on the forum that a way around this is to do a take on the left channel. The problem is where to find the control that allows for recording to the left channel. The strange thing is the sound card control panel shows the signal going in as stereo.

Currently using a tube pre amp, sound card m audio 2496, MTS pro.

Appreciate any ideas.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:36 am

Click the button under Track Name window, New->.Wav->Stereo.

There will be one track rack there, but note that it now has a PAN button that pans a stereo track.

If you hit the EDIT button, you will see two .wav tracks one above the other.

Alternatively, you can arm two tracks, each one mono and then MTS will automatically assign track one to the first input of the 2496 and track two to the second if both are armed to record.

From the MTS manual:

The input channels of the audio device being used are assigned to recording Audio Tracks in order of appearance. I.e., with
a stereo device and two mono tracks the first (upper) track will record the left channel, and the second (lower) track will
record the right channel.

Most of the time I prefer the first method for Stereo tracks as I have no need to separate them and editing is a lot easier if you have to do any.

HTH,

--Mac

ravenmusic · Post by **ravenmusic** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:24 am

I'm ok on how to record a track and have an idea what all the buttons are for, I always check the manual and forum before posting here. So Apologies if I did not explain clearly. What I am trying to understand is why I can only get a recording to record to the right channel as apposed to stereo. Even when I pan hard left the recording still records to the right channel. I've checked the MTS settings, cables and connections and it all seems in order. Something's amiss somewhere. I do not of course have this problem with midi.

Thanks

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:42 pm

Recording->Audio Input Control (ctrl-I) and take a look at the list.

I'm using a Delta 2496 on the desktop and it lists the following:

Audio In 1 Delta-AP [1][1]
Audio In 2 Delta-AP [1][2]
SPDIF In L Delta-AP [1][3]
SPDIF In R Delta-AP [1][4]
Mixer In L Delta-AP [1][5]
Mixer In R Delta-AP [1][6]

I don't see any way to select or change things from in there, though, just that they have always worked as advertised here.

The Delta Control Panel, make sure that Hardware In 1/2 over on the right hand side is all on and that one of them is not inadvertently muted there. (forgive, but, -- maybe)

Under the Patchbay/Router tab, mine is set to Monitor Mixer.

Under Hardware Settings, ASIO, I have the "Disable Audio App use of Monitor/Mixer and Patchbay/Router checked, seem to recall at one time that wasn't checked but forget why I had to check it at the time.

If all else fails, contact MTS Support directly by email, this is the best support in the business, you actually get answers that WORK here.

Luck,

--Mac

ravenmusic · Post by **ravenmusic** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:14 pm

Mac, the sound card is ok. Yep the support is good here at MTS, I'm sure a solution will be found. Thanks anyways.

NystagmusE · Post by **NystagmusE** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:47 pm

If your computer has a built in motherboard soundcard, disable it in the BIOS. Built in motherboards can conflict with PCI soundcards. You get into the BIOS by holding down some particular key during computer startup before the operating system loads. Which key you press depends upon which computer you are using.

In your soundcard control panel, make sure that your left channel is panned hard left, and the right channel is panned hard right.

If you still get troubles, try reinstalling the soundcard drivers.

ravenmusic · Post by **ravenmusic** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:44 pm

Hi, I posted an email over to Giel at MTS support and after some discussion came up with a simple solution. Mic recording is usually in mono. My pre amp records mono but somehow the recording switched to the right channel, it should have recorded to the left channel for mono. To remedy this it was a simple matter of changing a setting in the Recording menu?s Input Control. Here there is a list of the input channels, it was a matter of replacing the second input "Analog In 2 Delta-AP" for the first input channel. Its not stereo but it worked, now I can record a good clear mono track. It?s a great improvement on the previous setting of recording to the right channel.

I think I may have confused myself with a previous programme I used before changing over to MTS. The previous programme was a piece of a cake that collapsed in the middle but if a track was set to stereo then that is how it recorded regardless.

Thanks for your suggestions and help.

Cheers

Robomusic · Post by **Robomusic** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:09 am

90% of the stereo albums out there were recorded in stereo with a fine bunch of mono track panned all around.

ravenmusic · Post by **ravenmusic** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:58 am

Thinking about, there is nothing wrong with mono. Back in the days of yore mono is all we had, sounded good too.

Robomusic · Post by **Robomusic** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:28 pm

There are some circumstances where stereo helps a track, but i have done many where i did both a mono and a stereo, and was very hard pressed to tell the difference with a single track, if you speak of a completed song there is a night and day difference.

NystagmusE · Post by **NystagmusE** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:55 am

Mono and stereo aren't totally separate. You can of course pan to be somewhat in stereo and somewhat in mono or any similar combo. There is also MS mixing where you can control the mono center to side ratio.

Robomusic · Post by **Robomusic** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:32 am

My point is this, if you record a vocal track in stereo and pan it 32 degrees left, both halves of that stereo track are .... 32 degrees left.

Unless you use a stereo plug to then send the halves somewhere else they are in most situations just like a mono track.

But if you have 6 different mono tracks, and they are all panned to different left and right positions, then you have a stereo project.

Now there are some instruments that beneift from stereo tracks dues to effects on them like a stereo chorus or something similar, and stereo individual tracks sometimes sound a tad fuller, but they are not truely going to add to the stereo effect of the song since both halves of the track reside in the same place in the "SONGS" stereo field.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:17 pm

Sounds like we have some craftsmen here that need to websearch up the difference between "Equal Energy" or "Constant Source/Constant Energy" stereo panning vs a straight pan.

You also need to know which kind of panning your software does (and sometimes does with different types of tracks automatically).

A stereo track with equal energy panning invoked will not lose its stereo effect when panned left or right in the field a bit. This is great for those stereo keyboard tracks, etc.

But I don't think this is the idea that the original poster had in mind anyway, I got the feeling that he has a single stereo track in toto that he wanted to record or duplicate by recording. That would mean his pan would be dead 12 o'clock when done anyway.

--Mac

ravenmusic · Post by **ravenmusic** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:35 pm

The original question was based on some confusion I was having with recording vocal and acoustic guitar using a mic and tube pre amp.

I had got together with a friend and we recorded his vocal and acoustic guitar on separate tracks. I added some simple keyboard backing later. The recording was done in a track set up to record stereo. It wasn?t until I started to add some effects and panning that I realised there was a situation. I noticed that the vocal and guitar had recorded hard to the right channel, the level meter registering a signal to the right channel only. When I tried panning to get the vocals to sit in a more central position the vocal volume decreased substantially and it lost much of its essence and feel. I tried adding a limiter and although this increased the volume it sounded pretty awful. Even recording a mono track did not produce a good result the signal was extremely weak.

I may have unnecessarily focused on the stereo aspect of recording and indeed stereo is not always the preferred option. But all I wanted to achieve was to get the vocal and guitar to sit in the middle so that they could be panned slightly left or right if needs be.

After some discussion with Giel the issue is now sorted, recording vocals in mono records to the correct channel with a nice clear signal. Vocals now record where I want them and can be panned left or right or just sit there in the centre.

MrHope, what?s MS mixing?

Thanks folks I learn much just by reading here on the forum

snaarman · Post by **snaarman** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:14 pm

Aha... MS: Middle and Side

This is a secret recording technique used by very clever people...

You record the mid channel as a mono signal, and also record the "side" or difference - you can get this using a ribbon mic with a figure of 8 response: So if you sing front and centre of a MS mic set up, you get your vocals on the Mid channnel and (in theory) nothing on the Side channel.

If you record a group of vocalists this way, you can adjust the apparent stereo spread in the resulting mix by fading up or down the side channel.

Like I say, rather clever..

P