Hi,
Here's my status: I have a Yamaha PSR-295 keyboard and recently bought a USB cable to hook it up to my computer. Main reason being was to put my recorded music from my keyboard onto my computer in MIDI format.
After doing a little searching on the internet I found several MIDI software including this one.
OK, my problem is: the music recorded on my keyboard is basically all guitar stuff. I've tweaked the guitar voices and dualed them with other guitar voices, messed with the reverb and everything to get a realistic sounding guitar voice. But when I hook up my keyboard and computer, the same tweaked guitar voice I have saved on my keyboard, sounds crappy on computer.
Is this because of my soundcard or something?
Also, why is it some voices don't match the ones I'm playing? For instance I select Voice001 GrandPno on my keyboard yet with MTS the voice come outs differently (it plays a stringed instrument or something). However when I select Voice444 Helicptr for instance, it sounds just as it does on keyboard, the sound of a helicopter.
Another question, why doesn't MTS allow me to use Yamaha AC-XG WDM XG Synth (my soundcard driver) as my MIDI Out device? Another MIDI software I have allows it but MTS doesn't. Instead, I have to use Yamaha XG WDM SoftSynthesizer which when used as my MIDI Out device is pants. This is because the sounds are delayed when I play on my keyboard yet with the other MIDI Out device it's right on time. Also, the settings don't seem to sound correct using this device e.g Sustain.
I'm really new to all this MIDI stuff. Good luck trying to help me!
Regards,
Ackers
Hi, I'm new to MIDI and everything and have a few q's
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NystagmusE
I have the feeling that your technical issues are more complex. You should email support@MultiTrackStudio.com for a more complete answer.
The keyboard uses its own internal Midi synth for the sounds you originally heard.
The PC recording program, any one, like MTS, will only get the Midi data from the keyboard when you take a file from it.
That data will be used to play back whatever Midi synth the host program is addressing and can often sound completely different from the hardware synth inside your keyboard.
But there is a way to get the keyboard's sounds.
Hook up TWO midi cables from keyboard to PC, keyboard In to PC Out and Pc In to keyboard Out.
Then tell MTS to use the keyboard as the Midi Output device.
When MTS plays back the data it will play it back through the keyboard's synth, so you will hear what the keyboard plays through the keyboard's speakers.
Adding two Audio cables from Keyboards Line Outs to the Soundcard's Audio Line Ins will enable you to hear what the keyboard plays through the computer monitor speakers, plus you can arm an audio track in MTS to record that to get that same sound in your MTS finished sequences if you like. Don't forget to MUTE or archive the original Midi track once the Audio track of the midi synth is made, or both will be playing back at the same time!
--Mac
The PC recording program, any one, like MTS, will only get the Midi data from the keyboard when you take a file from it.
That data will be used to play back whatever Midi synth the host program is addressing and can often sound completely different from the hardware synth inside your keyboard.
But there is a way to get the keyboard's sounds.
Hook up TWO midi cables from keyboard to PC, keyboard In to PC Out and Pc In to keyboard Out.
Then tell MTS to use the keyboard as the Midi Output device.
When MTS plays back the data it will play it back through the keyboard's synth, so you will hear what the keyboard plays through the keyboard's speakers.
Adding two Audio cables from Keyboards Line Outs to the Soundcard's Audio Line Ins will enable you to hear what the keyboard plays through the computer monitor speakers, plus you can arm an audio track in MTS to record that to get that same sound in your MTS finished sequences if you like. Don't forget to MUTE or archive the original Midi track once the Audio track of the midi synth is made, or both will be playing back at the same time!
--Mac
Hi,
What Mac says is true when you're using midi ins and outs. I'm not so sure how things work when you're only connected via usb cable . My experience is that files and presets can be sent via usb, but I've never tried to use a usb connection in place of midi in/out. Theoretically it should be possible though, depends on drivers etc. Support will be able to answer that one. Whichever way you do it you're going to need identical synths with identical setting to get anything near identical sounds, which will be a problem. I used my old casio keyboard like Mac suggested and it worked fine, recording the audio via the line in. Latency had to be dealt with afterwards by manually synchronising the track, but at least I got the sounds. Physics is a darn nuisance sometimes
What Mac says is true when you're using midi ins and outs. I'm not so sure how things work when you're only connected via usb cable . My experience is that files and presets can be sent via usb, but I've never tried to use a usb connection in place of midi in/out. Theoretically it should be possible though, depends on drivers etc. Support will be able to answer that one. Whichever way you do it you're going to need identical synths with identical setting to get anything near identical sounds, which will be a problem. I used my old casio keyboard like Mac suggested and it worked fine, recording the audio via the line in. Latency had to be dealt with afterwards by manually synchronising the track, but at least I got the sounds. Physics is a darn nuisance sometimes
Thanks for the replies.
I wish my keyboard did have a MIDI IN and MIDI OUT port but it's so outdated it only has a USB port. I guess my problem is right there.
To be quite honest all I really wanted to do was backup the music recorded on my keyboard onto my computer in MIDI format. It is quite important I have it in MIDI format so that I can just put it back on my keyboard in case I accidentally delete it.
I've had my keyboard reset it self at least six times over the past few years! All my precious work, all my precious settings GONE forever! So heartbreaking when that happens...
I could always record via the line-in port but then it wouldn't record as a MIDI file but instead an MP3 file or Wav etc.
I guess I'm just gonna have to record my backups in MIDI format with the crappy voices my computer outputs. At least that way they're still in MIDI format and I can put them back on my keyboard...
I wish my keyboard did have a MIDI IN and MIDI OUT port but it's so outdated it only has a USB port. I guess my problem is right there.
To be quite honest all I really wanted to do was backup the music recorded on my keyboard onto my computer in MIDI format. It is quite important I have it in MIDI format so that I can just put it back on my keyboard in case I accidentally delete it.
I've had my keyboard reset it self at least six times over the past few years! All my precious work, all my precious settings GONE forever! So heartbreaking when that happens...
I could always record via the line-in port but then it wouldn't record as a MIDI file but instead an MP3 file or Wav etc.
I guess I'm just gonna have to record my backups in MIDI format with the crappy voices my computer outputs. At least that way they're still in MIDI format and I can put them back on my keyboard...
Actually, you've got that backwards -- the two Midi cables are the older connection, often surplanted these days by the single USB port. Doesn't matter as either can be used to do the same job and with the USB on the keyboard you don't have to purchase a separate Midi connection and drivers to hang on your PC. Some soundcards don't include midi connections and all built in PC soundcards do not, so the USB connection can be quite handy, and is a lot newer in technology than the old Midi cable connections with DIN plugs.Ackers wrote:Thanks for the replies.
I wish my keyboard did have a MIDI IN and MIDI OUT port but it's so outdated it only has a USB port. I guess my problem is right there.
Sounds like you've done that then. All you need do is know how to export the MTS stuff you've recorded as a Midi File, which is in the MTS help and manual.To be quite honest all I really wanted to do was backup the music recorded on my keyboard onto my computer in MIDI format. It is quite important I have it in MIDI format so that I can just put it back on my keyboard in case I accidentally delete it.
Hooking up the Audio lines is also the way to hear your midi files played back on the synth in the keyboard so you can check them. They should sound identical to the keyboard playing the files by itself. You don't have to record if you don't want to, but being able to monitor that might be crucial to making sure that the midi files you've made are correct.I could always record via the line-in port but then it wouldn't record as a MIDI file but instead an MP3 file or Wav etc.
You could but you don't have to do that. With the USB connection, just select the keyboard as the midi output in MTS, usually marked USB Midi Out or the like, and then you can hear the keyboard play back through its own speakers as MTS plays back the Midi data and sends it to the keyboard.I guess I'm just gonna have to record my backups in MIDI format with the crappy voices my computer outputs. At least that way they're still in MIDI format and I can put them back on my keyboard...
HTH,
--Mac
Then why do modern keyboards have MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports?Actually, you've got that backwards -- the two Midi cables are the older connection, often surplanted these days by the single USB port. Doesn't matter as either can be used to do the same job and with the USB on the keyboard you don't have to purchase a separate Midi connection and drivers to hang on your PC. Some soundcards don't include midi connections and all built in PC soundcards do not, so the USB connection can be quite handy, and is a lot newer in technology than the old Midi cable connections with DIN plugs.
I selected my keyboard as my MIDI OUT port this time (rather than my soundcard) and it does play the data through my keyboards speakers. But that still doesn't solve my problem with the Voices that don't match.You could but you don't have to do that. With the USB connection, just select the keyboard as the midi output in MTS, usually marked USB Midi Out or the like, and then you can hear the keyboard play back through its own speakers as MTS plays back the Midi data and sends it to the keyboard.
I actually have Voices saved on my keyboards Memory Bank. For example, on Bank 7: Memory 2 I have Folk Gtr as the Voice and E.Piano 1 as the Dual Voice. I want MTS to automatically select these voices and their settings when I select them on my keyboard.
MTS sort of does this... in the synth's user interface I select Bank 7: Memory 2 from my keyboard and the thing that says bank:prog changes. So I play my keyboard and the sound coming out of my keyboards speakers is no longer a Piano but hardly any different at all.
None of this is to do with General Midi, Yamaha dtexpress or Korg TR-Rack is it (the stuff you can choose from from the synth control in MTS)? Or even the fact I'm using the Lite Edition?
Yea but I don't want a MIDI file with rubbish sounding Voices that don't match the ones I select on my keyboard.Sounds like you've done that then. All you need do is know how to export the MTS stuff you've recorded as a Midi File, which is in the MTS help and manual.
Thanks,
Ackers
"Modern"Then why do modern keyboards have MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports?
History goes like this:
Somewhere around the end of the 70s, beginning of the 80s I guess, the Midi Manufacturer's Association was born. They got together and put together some standards for Midi instruments. "Midi" stands for "Musical Instrument Digital Interface" and can be used for a lot more things than just the kind of stuff you and I are doing with it. Once I worked the soundboard for a large touring group and to my right sat a fellow who worked a digital lighting board which used the same Midi data to control the lights. "Note-On" and "Note-Off" data was used as Light On and Light Off, Continuous Controller 7, Volume was used for light intensity, CC11, Expression was also used for intensity of lights within banks, etc. It is just digital code, after all, but in this case we use it to control a musical bank of instrument patches. Keep that word, "bank" in mind.
Midi stuff did not have USB ports back then. Heck, there wasn't USB on anything. We had the DIN Midi In and Out connection cables.
USB is relatively new technology.
A lot of consumer level keyboards and midi synths immediately started showing up with USB ports on them, some include the older DIN connectors, too, but a lot of them these days have only USB connections on them. This does not necessarily mean that the good old DIN midi cable connections are being phased out, not at all, but you will notice that they now start at a certain pricepoint. One USB socket is a lot less expensive than two or three DIN plugs. Either can work, they transfer the exact same Midi data, with USB being perhaps a bit more problematic due to the way different computer motherboard manufacturers implement their USB bus and drivers.
You would need to imbed the proper bank and patch change onto each track in MTS, at the beginning of the track and also wherever on a track you wanted a patch change. These must correspond to the bank and patch assignments for your particular midi synths. GM standard makes it easy because all of them will have the same instrument name in the same slot, but if you want to use the higher banks on your synth or the custom banks, you have to know where they are in terms of Bank and Patch number to enter that data into MTS.I selected my keyboard as my MIDI OUT port this time (rather than my soundcard) and it does play the data through my keyboards speakers. But that still doesn't solve my problem with the Voices that don't match.
I actually have Voices saved on my keyboards Memory Bank. For example, on Bank 7: Memory 2 I have Folk Gtr as the Voice and E.Piano 1 as the Dual Voice. I want MTS to automatically select these voices and their settings when I select them on my keyboard.
That is because when you select the change on the keyboard, it sends that bank and patch change information to MTS and it will only stay that way while you are playing. This is as designed. The recorded Midi tracks in MTS will not know this because you did not record (or enter) the bank and patch change onto the track(s).MTS sort of does this... in the synth's user interface I select Bank 7: Memory 2 from my keyboard and the thing that says bank:prog changes. So I play my keyboard and the sound coming out of my keyboards speakers is no longer a Piano but hardly any different at all.
You will need to make a Patch Map of your own synth's bank and patch placements in order to do that. The manual that comes with your synth should have a table, usually at the back, where all the patches are listed and the banks. See the MTS manual for more on that issue. You don't have to make the Patch Map, I hardly ever do, I just use the manuals or the keyboard itself to locate the Bank and Patch info and then edit it into MTS on each track as I go. But I play the keyboard as an instrument while recording what I play in realtime, so I can easily just punch synth buttons while MTS is recording and that info gets recorded onto the track.None of this is to do with General Midi, Yamaha dtexpress or Korg TR-Rack is it (the stuff you can choose from from the synth control in MTS)? Or even the fact I'm using the Lite Edition?
Of course you don't. But you are going to have to learn a little bit about using Midi in order to get the job done.Yea but I don't want a MIDI file with rubbish sounding Voices that don't match the ones I select on my keyboard.
There may be a way to re-record your midi files into MTS and also get the bank and patch changes if they are truly imbedded in the keyboard's midi files and not something you are changing manually at the keyboard before you play them back, I don't know. This too would be in your Midi device's operation manual.
No, it is not simplicity.
No, it is not plug 'n play.
But it is indeed powerful stuff and along with that kind of power comes a certain level of complexity, terminology you will have to dig and a few operational issues to know.
After that, it will be a piece of cake.
--Mac
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NystagmusE
just so you know, MTS doesn't deal with certain aspects of MIDI like other sequencers. That's part of the reason why i think you should email support@multitrackstudio.com
What's different?
Maybe the labeling or where you find certain things, but I never thought MTS was all that much different in how it handles Midi files.
The Notation view is a doggone hard read for a real music reader, but other than that, MTS seems to do fine for me with all my Midi sequencing and is not all that different from the myriad of other programs I've used in that regard. better in some ways.
--Mac
Maybe the labeling or where you find certain things, but I never thought MTS was all that much different in how it handles Midi files.
The Notation view is a doggone hard read for a real music reader, but other than that, MTS seems to do fine for me with all my Midi sequencing and is not all that different from the myriad of other programs I've used in that regard. better in some ways.
--Mac
Haven't seen any email message on this subject.
Like Mac said: the program is supposed to pick up the bank and program messages the keyboard sends when changing sounds on the keyboards. But it only does this if the track is recording. So you should click a track's rec button (so it appears red), and then change the keyboard's sound to a different one and then back to the one you want. Repeat this for the other tracks.
This should do the trick. Note that the patch name probably won't match the one your keyboard show's. That's no problem.
Giel Bremmers
Like Mac said: the program is supposed to pick up the bank and program messages the keyboard sends when changing sounds on the keyboards. But it only does this if the track is recording. So you should click a track's rec button (so it appears red), and then change the keyboard's sound to a different one and then back to the one you want. Repeat this for the other tracks.
This should do the trick. Note that the patch name probably won't match the one your keyboard show's. That's no problem.
Giel Bremmers
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NystagmusE
From the MultitrackStudio.com features webpages:Mac wrote:What's different?
--Mac
A MIDI file can contain more than one stream ('track' in MIDI terms, but renamed to avoid confusion). MultitrackStudio supports using multiple streams, although we don't recommend it.
MultitrackStudio does not support patch changes in a stream. If a program change or bank change is encountered in a file that is being loaded a new stream will be created. Furthermore MultitrackStudio streams can only send messages to one MIDI channel (it uses the channel the program change is sent to). So if a stream in your file sends messages to more than one MIDI channel (which is bad practice anyway) the file won't load as intended.
Virtual MIDI channels
A MIDI Out Device contains 16 MIDI channels. MIDI Out devices are virtualized by MultitrackStudio, meaning that a single MIDI channel on a MIDI Out device can be used by more than one stream. MultitrackStudio will automatically take care of playing each note using its own stream's patch and controllers. Obviously, this only works if streams using the same MIDI channel don't play notes at the same time.
Mr. Hope, this is just a matter of the way in which that was written, that makes it appear like MTS is a special case.
In reality, every midi sequencing program works in much the same way as described.
That part about changing patches midstream and not being able to see the patch change in the MTS patches window happens in a lot of other sequencers, too. Depends on a lot of things, including the Midi Output device. When Twelvetone Systems initiated the ability to read the Soundfont Banks from Creative Live synth, this was the first time I ever saw the Midi Output patch window change with the patch change midstream. And that was only when using the Live card with internal soundfont synth, all my other synths, hardware or software, didn't reflect that midstream change either. (Cakelwalk ver 8 or 9, I forget now)
I've been a Midiot since Midi was invented, starting out on an Atari that I still keep running and use from time to time because of the excellent and early Bars 'n Pipes program, which acts exactly the same way as described for MTS in this regard.
Matter of fact my transition from other sequencers to MTS was smooth and easy with no surprises at all. It does indeed conform to the Midi Standard, give or take a few naming conventions that are different in many different programs. Things like the use of the word, "Devices" where in other proggies it might be labled as "Midi Output" or "Synth" or anything else really that might fit. But "under the hood" things are quite the same.
--Mac
In reality, every midi sequencing program works in much the same way as described.
That part about changing patches midstream and not being able to see the patch change in the MTS patches window happens in a lot of other sequencers, too. Depends on a lot of things, including the Midi Output device. When Twelvetone Systems initiated the ability to read the Soundfont Banks from Creative Live synth, this was the first time I ever saw the Midi Output patch window change with the patch change midstream. And that was only when using the Live card with internal soundfont synth, all my other synths, hardware or software, didn't reflect that midstream change either. (Cakelwalk ver 8 or 9, I forget now)
I've been a Midiot since Midi was invented, starting out on an Atari that I still keep running and use from time to time because of the excellent and early Bars 'n Pipes program, which acts exactly the same way as described for MTS in this regard.
Matter of fact my transition from other sequencers to MTS was smooth and easy with no surprises at all. It does indeed conform to the Midi Standard, give or take a few naming conventions that are different in many different programs. Things like the use of the word, "Devices" where in other proggies it might be labled as "Midi Output" or "Synth" or anything else really that might fit. But "under the hood" things are quite the same.
--Mac